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Michael Novinson: Hello, this is
Michael Novinson with

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Information Security Media
Group. I'm joined today by Ruvi

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Kitov. He is the co-founder,
chairman and CEO of Tufin. Good

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morning, Ruvi. How are you?

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Ruvi Kitov: I am very good.
Thank you very much, Michael,

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for having me on.

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Michael Novinson: Of course,
you're very welcome. It's been a

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big year for Tufin. Just about
two weeks ago, you were acquired

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by Turn/River Capital for $570
million, taking the company

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private. What's the significance
of that acquisition for your

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customers and your partners?

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Ruvi Kitov: It's a significant
acquisition for the company, in

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general. The company was founded
18 years ago. It was private for

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a long time and then we went
public in April 2019. So we were

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public for about three years and
then we got acquired by

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Turn/River and closing actually
took place about a week ago. So,

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for customers and partners, some
of the changes that we started

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making are going to accelerate.
So the move to subscription -

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that transition that we
announced early 2021 - we're

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going to accelerate that
transition. I think that's

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important because subscription,
on the one hand, allows us to

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have more consistent recurring
revenue. But on the other hand,

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for customers, I think customers
have a way with vendors to

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monitor what's going on. They
know, every year when that

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renewal comes out that vendor
needs to make sure that customer

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success is really followed. So I
think customers actually like

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vendors moving to subscription.
So we're going to focus even

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more so on customer success than
we have before. We need to make

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sure that we're on top of the
game, and that we're delivering

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all the value that customers
expect us to deliver. And from

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the partner perspective, I think
partners are very happy with

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where we're going as well. We've
gotten very good feedback and

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update calls that we've had with
partners. Probably, there's

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going to be any significant
changes there.

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Michael Novinson: In terms of
some of those priorities you

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outlined here - the transition
to subscription, focus on

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customer success - why do you
feel it'll be easier to do that

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under the ownership of
Turn/River than as a public

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company?

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Ruvi Kitov: So as a public
company, the expectations are

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from quarter to quarter, that
you hit certain milestones, and

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a company that goes through a
transition from switching from

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perpetual license to
subscription, a lot of times

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that carries with it a degree of
uncertainty. So being able to

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predict exactly what your
revenue and Opex is going to be

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on every single quarter, that's
tough to do when you're going

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through a transition like that,
because it's difficult to tell

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ahead of time what is the pace
of the transition? Will

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customers move? Will customers
want to transition immediately

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or not? Some customers might
want to do, you know, longer

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duration deals or shorter deals.
So there's a lot of unknowns on

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that kind of a transition. And
when you're a private company,

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you don't have that microscope
that the public markets put on a

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company that goes through the
transition. So it's a lot easier

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to do as a private company than
as a public company.

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Michael Novinson: Very
interesting. I did want to ask

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specifically, what the appeal
was of Turn/River versus another

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financial or strategic buyer? I
realized that Turn/River

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historically hasn't done too
much in cybersecurity. What's

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the appeal of them in
particular?

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Ruvi Kitov: Yeah, so they've
actually had several

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acquisitions in cybersecurity,
but maybe, you know, not a lot

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of people have heard about it,
but they have owned and they own

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some cybersecurity assets. And
specifically, they're

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interesting to Tufin from
several perspectives. One is

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they've really specialized in
transitions from perpetual to

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subscription. They've done
multiple transitions like that

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very successfully. They focus
primarily on software companies.

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They're very good at it. And
their track record is really

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phenomenal. And when you look at
how they operate, you know,

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their whole process is different
from other piece. They have a

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lot more people in the
operations team. And the

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founders themselves actually
have managed software companies

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before. They're not necessarily
finance people. So they come

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with a lot of knowledge and a
lot of best practices. So they

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have playbooks on the transition
itself and how to drive growth

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in the market, how to align
go-to-market better. So you

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know, they've honed these
tactics over the years, and

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they're adjusting them with
every company that they acquire.

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So that's how they were
introduced to us and our

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process. And now that we've been
working with them for a few

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months, I can tell you that, you
know, we really work well with

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them. I think Turn/River culture
and Tufin culture have a lot of

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similarities between them.
They're very curious. They want

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to know, you know, what's the
reality, what's the truth, what

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is the right thing to do. And
they're focused on getting that.

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They don't have big egos, which
is super helpful to be working

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with. So we really enjoy working
with them so far.

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Michael Novinson: That's great.
Want to ask about this

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transition from perpetual to
subscription revenue model. What

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are some of the biggest
challenges associated with

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making that transition? What are
some of the ways you feel that

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Turn/River can be helpful in
that?

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Ruvi Kitov: So you know, one of
the things that we did when we

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started was we still kept some
perpetual sales on. And when you

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have a mixture of perpetual and
subscription, that's very

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difficult to manage. So one of
the things we're moving towards

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is stopping new perpetual sales
altogether. And it's going to

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help to kind of peel the band
aid off, and focus 100% just on

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subscription business moving
forward. So that's one change.

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The other change that we're
looking at is aligning what the

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product portfolio looks like,
how are we licensing all of it.

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You know, we have four main
products, but we have

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marketplace apps as well. It's
quite complicated; if you look

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at our price list, it's very
long. And even for our sales

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team, it takes a while to learn
the pricing and licensing and

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all the nuances. So we're
simplifying the price list, and

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making it easier to digest both
for the salespeople, for the

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customers and for the partners.

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Michael Novinson: Gotcha! So, in
terms of the transition over to

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subscription, what's the
significance for customers? How

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are customers impacted or how do
they potentially benefit from

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procuring Tufin on a
subscription basis, rather than

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on a perpetual basis?

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Ruvi Kitov: So you know, for us,
it's part of a bear change. So

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moving forward, we're only going
to sell subscription licenses.

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But also, we're changing the way
that we're packaging the

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products. So if previously, you
could buy all sorts of different

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elements; you can buy, for
example, SecureTrack and

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SecureChange, and provisioning
in SecureChange and SecureApp,

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and then the various marketplace
apps, high availability was

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different. So there's dozens of
different licenses. We

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standardize on three tiers now
and each tier has certain things

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that are part of that tier. So
people that used to buy

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SecureTrack, they're now in a
certain tier, and they get all

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sorts of apps that they didn't
have before. And people that had

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SecureChange previously, that
they were going to buy

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SecureChange, now, there's a
tier that aligns with that, that

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has SecureChange plus a lot more
things. And people that were

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buying additional things, we
have a tier called Enterprise,

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where we're bundling a lot more
things into the Enterprise, like

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high availability, and a lot
more different licenses that

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people used to buy separately.
So it's a lot simpler. It's

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simpler to manage. There's also
more flexibility that we're

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building into the licensing. So
I think for customers, there's a

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lot of benefits in making it
simpler, easier to understand

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what they're buying, how that's
going to expand and having the

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flexibility as they're growing
their network.

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Michael Novinson: In terms of
the Tufin product portfolio - I

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know you've mentioned there
being four products. What

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product or what technology are
you seeing the fastest growth in

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or the highest increase in
demand in right now and why?

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Ruvi Kitov: Yeah, so automation
has always been the main reason

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people buy Tufin. In our market,
we're clearly the leader in

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automation, especially when you
get to the high end in terms of

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large organizations. And I would
say the fastest growth that

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we're seeing right now is in the
cloud, both in TOS cloud and

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cloud-native applications. So
people are buying a lot more

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firewalls in the cloud, and
they're expanding to the cloud

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much faster than before.

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Michael Novinson: I see. I know
we've talked quite a bit about

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your strategy, your focus in
terms of the go-to-market, this

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shift to the subscription-based
licensing. Want to hear a little

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bit about your R&D or your
technology roadmap. What are

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some of the key landmarks and
milestones coming up there under

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Turn/River's ownership?

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Ruvi Kitov: Sure. So we're
continuing to invest a lot in

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technology. We're probably
investing more than any other

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company in our space. The cloud
is a major investment area for

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us. Also, SASE and the SD-WAN
are major investment areas. So

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I'd say one area of focus for us
is extending visibility and

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automation into the cloud, even
more so than before. So that

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means understanding the cloud
network and topology in depth,

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and understanding all the
different elements in the cloud,

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and all the different layers of
segmentation. So that's one

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area. The other one is advanced
automation for next-generation

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networks. We have a lot of work
around that, a lot of customer

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demand from different scenarios
of next-gen firewalls and their

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automation. And the third, I
would say, is the ability to add

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new platforms more rapidly. So
building the infrastructure to

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be able to add new vendors,
primarily in the cloud and

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SD-WAN-SASE space, because
there's many vendors and want to

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be able to have those
capabilities faster than before.

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Michael Novinson: In terms of
the cloud piece, obviously, a

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lot of security vendors are
investing in the cloud right

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now. What do you feel is
different about what you're

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doing at Tufin around cloud
security than what some of your

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peers in the industry are doing?

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Ruvi Kitov: Yes, I think a lot
of people are focused just in

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general on trying to secure
workloads and secure the

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environment. And we've always
been focused on access policies

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and connectivity. So for us, the
fundamental question is who owns

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really access control end to
end, both on the cloud and the

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on-prem., and how can you bring
the two together? So our thesis

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is that you need a single
control plan, where you'll be

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able to manage the connectivity
both for the on-premise, the

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cloud hub, and the edge. And the
question is, who gets to define

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and enforce that security
policy? So we have built, you

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know, it's an overused term, but
a single pane of glass, in terms

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of policy, to be able to define
a policy, both for the on-prem

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and the cloud, including CI/CD
pipelines, and how all of that

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work in tandem. So that is the
difference really to be able to

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define who can talk to whom and
what can talk to what, both

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on-prem and in the cloud, and
have that in a single platform.

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Michael Novinson: And the days
leading up to the Turn/River

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acquisition closer, you had
disclosed layoffs, affecting

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roughly 10% of your workforce or
roughly 55 employees. How are

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those job reductions affect your
strategy and your roadmap going

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forward?

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Ruvi Kitov: So they don't really
affect the strategy and the

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roadmap in a significant way.
For us, you know, if we look at,

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when we were a public company,
we were losing money. We had a

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budget where we're expecting
losses this year, and also next

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year. So you know, as the market
is headed likely toward the

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recession, we need to make sure
that we're working toward

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profitable growth. So making
that change is something that

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many, many public companies and
private companies have done.

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And, you know, we needed to make
sure that we're losing less, and

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we're moving toward being a
cash-positive company, as we

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made those changes.

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Michael Novinson: Power for you
then. So what areas within the

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organization were most affected
by the layoffs? And what's the

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impact for customers?

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Ruvi Kitov: It's, I would say,
across the board, so different

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departments, really. But, you
know, most of it was in sales

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and marketing, and R&D. But
those are just the two biggest

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parts of the organization. But
even after the changes, I think

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if you look at technology, we
are the biggest R&D organization

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than any of the vendors in our
space. We're the biggest

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vendors. So I don't think it's
going to impact our technology

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and roadmap moving forward.

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Michael Novinson: Wanted to talk
a little bit about industry

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trends. What are some of the
biggest things that you're

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keeping an eye on in the broader
industry, threat landscape,

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etc., this year?

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Ruvi Kitov: Sure. So, you know,
from our perspective, we're very

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focused on access, and
especially as people adopt more

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SD-WAN and SASE, we're seeing
how SD-WAN and SASE and

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firewalls are really blurring
the edges between each other. So

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there's SASE vendors that are
adding firewall capabilities,

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which is interesting and
firewall vendors that are adding

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SASE capabilities. So we see
them as merging into single

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platforms. And the other trend
that we're seeing is that

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there's now firewall as a
service in the cloud. So AWS and

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Azure have their own firewalls.
I'm not sure they're at the

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level of the enterprise
firewalls, but some people will

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use them as well. So we're
seeing more and more

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segmentation technology being
used. And there's even more

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complexity. So we're seeing even
further increase in complexity

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of enterprise networks, as
they're straddling on-prem and

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the cloud, and the cloud is
changing. So those are some of

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the trends that we find
interesting and that we're

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seeing in customer networks.

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Michael Novinson: One of those
developments made for Tufin in

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terms of firewall vendors moving
into SASE, SASE or SD-WAN

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vendors developing firewalls of
their own, I know Tufin's

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focused on that network
management space. So what a lot

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of these departments mean for
you?

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Ruvi Kitov: Well, to us, it
means that customers actually

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have additional things they need
to manage. And they're asking us

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to do that, right? So we added
support for Zscaler. And they're

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asking for support for more
SD-WAN and SASE vendors. So we

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want to support whatever
networks and cloud platforms

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that customers have. So there's
more and more platforms. Hence

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what I mentioned earlier, some
of our focus on adding some of

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those platforms faster to Tufin.
So that's an important trend

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that we're carefully monitoring.
We're adding more and more

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capabilities. We want to help
customers manage everything on

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their entire enterprise network,
whether it's on-premise, and

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let's say SD-WAN or the cloud.
So we're adding more and more

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capabilities there. And that's a
major focus area for us.

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Michael Novinson: Finally, from
the standpoint of the chief

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information security officer,
what do you feel is the biggest

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thing they're overlooking right
now? Where do they need to

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invest more time, more energy
than they are today?

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Ruvi Kitov: It's a good
question. I think that, you

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know, they're sort of running
around and trying to do

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everything. It's one of the
toughest jobs out there to be a

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CISO. Because you're inundated
both with threats and with

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different solutions to those
threats. I think one of the

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things that people are
overlooking is that they might

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have actually too many vendors.
You know, we have some CISOs

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that we speak with that have
already 50 different vendors for

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different solutions, that I
think it becomes almost

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unmanageable for the security
team. So I think one of the

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things that we're seeing is
that, you know, with the

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economic challenges that we're
seeing for the global economy, I

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have a feeling that some of the
really small vendors might not

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survive. And when you're
thinking of, "Okay, I need a

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solution for a certain
challenge," and you're looking

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at vendors, I would say one of
the things being overlooked is

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vendor viability. Who's going to
survive three or four or five

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years from now? You might be
buying a solution that ends up

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being vaporware, not because of
the product, but just because

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the company no longer exists
three years from now. So I would

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say that is an area that CISOs
should be looking at as they're

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thinking of criteria when
they're buying solutions.

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Michael Novinson: Very
interesting. Ruvi, thank you so

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much for the time.

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Ruvi Kitov: Thank you very much.
Really appreciate it.

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Michael Novinson: You're very
welcome. We've been speaking

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with Ruvi Kitov. He is
co-founder, chairman and CEO of

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Tufin. For Information Security
Media Group, this is Michael

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Novinson. Have a nice day.