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Mathew Schwartz: Hi, I'm Mathew
Schwartz with Information

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Security Media Group, and I'm
talking innovation in

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cybersecurity, and it's my
pleasure to welcome to the ISMG

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studio, John Chambers. John,
you're founder and CEO JC2

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Ventures. Thank you so much for
being in our studio today.

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John Chambers: Matt, it's a
pleasure! Having been with Cisco

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for almost 30 years and now
we're startup for the last

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seven. It's kind of an
interesting world we live in and

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I can't think of any topic more
exciting than cybersecurity,

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especially if you combine it
with AI today.

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Mathew Schwartz: Well, you have
been addressing or engaging with

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that. Cybersecurity, in general,
the potential, the promise,

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perhaps the peril with JC2
Ventures. Tell me a little bit

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about what you've accomplished
since its founding.

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John Chambers: JC2 Ventures,
it's my role to do this for the

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next chapter of my life. I love
doing acquisitions at Cisco. We

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did 180 acquisitions. We were
very active in cybersecurity, as

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you know, acquired eight
security companies when I was

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there. And so with JC2 Ventures,
I'm trying to not only create a

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successful venture fund, I'm
really a coach, a strategic

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partner, a confidant of the
CEO's and help them grow and

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scale a company, especially when
they get knocked down. The key

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areas of focus within JC2
Ventures is the area of

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cybersecurity, non-cybersecurity
companies and eight AI

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companies. And those were
actually blend together over

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time. And then it's always that,
which I do I believe in giving

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back to society, so heavily
involved in French high-tech,

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West Virginia is a startup
state, India is the most

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strategic partnership to the
U.S. So we can go wherever you

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want from here.

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Mathew Schwartz: Well, let's
look back, if you will - just a

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little bit - before we look
forward. As you said, you joined

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Cisco, it was back in 1991.
Security was arguably a bit of

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a, not niche, but a technology
subtopic? So what is different

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in the market since then, for you?

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John Chambers: Oh, it's a great
question. I've never had it

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asked exactly that way. For your
audience, I'm clearly buying a

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little bit of time while I get
my answer, just to share some of

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my secrets. To me, at Cisco, we
sold outcomes, not products. And

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people said, your router company
moves zeros and I said, no,

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we're going to change the world
the way it works, lives learns

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and place. And as you did that
with a network, you had to have

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cybersecurity or security at
that time, as part of the

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structure. Because if you're
moving information around, it

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wasn't secure, your customers
couldn't trust you, the

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consumer, the nation-states
cannot. So originally, it was a

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logical parallel to the network,
which integrated nicely with the

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network itself in terms of
differentiation. I would argue

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fast forward to today.
Cybersecurity is different than

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it was just even two or three
years ago. Two or three years

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ago at this conference, I get
asked the question, what's new

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in cybersecurity or security as
a whole. And we're just kind of

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evolving, it's kind of the same
story, similar players, a little

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bit evolution. Today, it's
changing in a tremendous fast

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pace. Number one, six or seven
years ago, at the World Economic

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Forum, when I said the only two
types of companies in this room,

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those that have been hacked, and
those that don't know they've

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been hacked. I remember that.
And I get it, that they didn't

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move. And even talking about the
importance of security,

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cybersecurity, two to three
years ago, the CEO would say

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yes, but where the board would
say that's kind of interesting.

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Give us a report once a year.
Today, it's going to be

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mainline, the CEOs in the future
are going to get paid on their

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cybersecurity positioning, the
board will be signing off, their

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cybersecurity is being done well
because it is so fundamental to

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the success of the companies. So
what is different today is

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you're at a major inflection
point where it's not going to

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the next generation of
cybersecurity players. It's

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going to go into an
architectural play, probably a

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consolidation within the
industry, whether that's one or

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two of the startups really
growing and expanding

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dramatically, or the traditional
players expanding their reach.

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But today, most of the
cybersecurity companies are

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still getting 70-80- 90% of
their profits and growth from

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one primary product category.
That doesn't work. There has to

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be an architectural player for
cybersecurity to really work in

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the future. And I think it's up
for opportunity for some new

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players perhaps to disrupt.

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Mathew Schwartz: You got
investments in a number of

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firms, as you mentioned. How do
your investments reflect where

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you see this market, the biggest
opportunities, the biggest

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potential?

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John Chambers: So I've been very
lucky on the cybersecurity

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companies because as you know,
Matt, startups have a problem

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every week and every month. At
the present time, out of the

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nine cybersecurity companies,
the slowest growing is at 40%

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year-over-year growth, the
fastest to 300%. Your audience

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knows in cybersecurity depending
on how you measure it, it's

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probably slowing a little bit,
probably somewhere in the 10 to

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12% year-over-year growth. And
the way I do it isn't

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cybersecurity, it's categories.
So I tend to think of it as an

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architectural play. What is the
category that says, where are

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you in cybersecurity today?
Because that's what I want to

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know, as a CEO. How good is my
company in cybersecurity? Are

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there areas that I'm exposed in?
If I spend money in an area

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would cover that? How much do I
need to spend? And I want to be

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able to both share with my
board, but also with myself,

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that I'm doing logical
investments for this market,

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that doesn't exist before. But a
safe security or barbacks do

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this remarkably, well. Two of
the early indicators on where

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are you, you spend money, how it
changed the paradigm. The next

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thing is how do you prevent the
companies from getting broken

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into and this is where a
Purveyor, which is always safe,

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secure phone in the world,
you'll see it adopted by our

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defense department. You take an
Apple phone, a Samsung phone,

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you put it in the case. And you
all of a sudden can allow the

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warfighter and take that with
them on their mission, or to

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take it into secure
environments. And nobody wants

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to be working in an environment
where you leave your phone at

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the door. Or when you're
traveling overseas, protecting

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our country, to not be able to
communicate with your family is

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really hard. That would be
another area, a company like

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VerseX watch for anomalies in
software, that are an issue that

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there's a bug going on there and
some shouldn't be done. And they

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set it down in milliseconds. A
company like Pindrop, which does

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voice recognition to avoid the
deepfakes. And this might be, I

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think, one of the surprises in
terms of cybersecurity over the

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next five years. Your voice and
my voice, it sounds reasonably

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easy to imitate with deepfakes,
right? It isn't. Your voice,

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Matt, has 8,000 samples in it
per second, per second that I

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can do analysis on. Five
seconds, 40,000 samples. Five

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minutes, you can do the math. So
you'll see companies like

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Pindrop, maybe make security,
not just cybersecurity, the

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single sign-on being voice, but
also the primary interface to

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the internet of things. And so
all of a sudden, I can say, yes,

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that was Matt or no, it was not,
it was another human. Or wait a

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minute, that was a deepfake done
by machine. And then I can even

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get the signature of that
machine with Pindrop to say this

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was the engine that did it. So
with many of the changes

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occurring, AI both accelerates
the challenges, but it can also

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accelerate how you deal with
them overall. And then you have

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companies like Rubrik, which do
a remarkably good job of

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recovering from an issue. So you
think about ransomware; they're

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a unicorn many, many times over.
They could be one of these

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companies that maybe help
consolidate the industry, we'll

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see if they want to do that or
not. Growing in an extremely

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good rate. But they basically
are able to - when you have a

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problem to recreate your data
and get you back up and running

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very effectively on it. And then
you have companies like

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SparkCognition, which do
literally, cybersecurity defense

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industry or space, AI for
industries as a whole. And so

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you begin to see AI and
cybersecurity actually come

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together. So we'll see how the
companies do. It's a portfolio

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play for me, but I'm trying to
ride that next wave, which I

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think will absolutely happen
with cybersecurity, not to a new

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generation, but a whole new
approach to the market and a

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consolidation in some ways, and
new acceleration of

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next-generation leaders.

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Mathew Schwartz: So speaking of
the market, speaking of

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unicorns, I've seen a little bit
of economic, you could say

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hiccups ...

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John Chambers: Yeah, some pretty
good hiccups!

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Mathew Schwartz: Some pretty
good hiccups.

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John Chambers: And proper burps,
at dinner you were satisfied

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which was very good.

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Mathew Schwartz: I was trying to
keep it you know, okay, a little

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polite. So, everyone loves to
talk about unicorns. What do you

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think the shake out is going to
be both for startups but also

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for unicorns? And is it going to
be a bad shake out? In terms of

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what the market impact is?

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John Chambers: So you asked
three or four questions, why do

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people want to focus on
unicorns, it's nice to have

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financial success. But startups
really don't generate a lot of

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jobs and economic longer-term
growth until they either do an

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IPO or become a unicorn. And so
measuring the number of those

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that are in a country, in a
state in the world, are very

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important about technology,
leadership and growth. Secondly,

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within that group there, let's
say 1,667 unicorns in the U.S.

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Let's say China has about a
fourth of that. The growth last

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year in the U.S. unicorns was
12%. China only grew five. India

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grew more in unicorns last year
than China did. And absolute

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numbers. Four times the growth
rate in France, which is a

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well-kept secret, became the
best startup country in Europe

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for innovation and direction. So
on the first phase, you want to

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make sure that and regardless of
how many make it or not you

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watched the trends. Second part
of your question, there's

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absolutely going to be a
breakout here downward, probably

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a third to half the unicorns
will not be a unicorn 12 to 24

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months from now. And you will
see within that category, that

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that's actually healthy for the
industry long-term. In terms of

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there's too much free money,
people getting evaluations

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without a clear path to
profitability and growth. So I

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think actually it is even though
it's very painful for us VCs and

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for those companies, it's a
logical step. 12 years of

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uninterrupted economic growth,
zero cost of capital - isn't how

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you should be running your
companies, you got to say, how

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do you position for the future?

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Mathew Schwartz: I want to shift
now to focusing on not just how

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the market is doing but economic
growth and giving back to

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society? What are you doing on
that front?

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John Chambers: Our industry, if
I were to take a step back,

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during the 1990s, near to years
of 2000, most Americans over 90%

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fail, technology was good for
our country. And good for them

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personally. Today, majority of
Americans don't agree with that.

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And I think some of the large
tech companies have misused

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their position in the
marketplace, to focus on

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economic return at times at the
expense of society, and ignoring

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fair request by government and
society, to balance between the

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economic return, and giving back
to society socially. I've always

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felt, when I was at Cisco, that
we owed obligation to do both.

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And we won every economic award
there was to win, Most Valuable

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Company, Top CEOs, most
consistent stock performance you

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invested as dollar, we got back
$15,000 on the stock. We made

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10,000 millionaires among our
employees in the first 10 years.

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But we also won every corporate
social responsibility award in

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the world. We went from
democratic president and

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secretary of state to republican
president and secretary of

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state. We won it in Middle East,
we won it in China and India.

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And so I felt that was so
important. I think we've got

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away from that at the present
time. And I think part of the

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blowback you're seeing both
politically and then trust is

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because the industry has not
been as predictable and doing

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what's right for society with
equal importance and economic

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and I'm not asking if the
expense of the shareholders, I

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think doing both together is the
right for the future. That's

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what I'm doing as well. I'm
giving back to my home state of

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West Virginia, becoming a
startup state. And for many of

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you that might think of West
Virginia as number 45-46-47-48,

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most categories. What is the
number three startup state in

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the U.S. today? West Virginia
grew 90% last year versus

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industry average of 27. What has
the lowest unemployment in his

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tracking history? West Virginia.
We are number six in GDP growth

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behind Oregon, we've attracted
$6 billion projects into the

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state and we have another five
to six in the pipeline. You

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normally get a billion dollar
project opportunity once a

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decade, we've done six in three
years from the Berkshire

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Hathaway Energy to the LG
Electronics, the energy Bill

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Gates projects, Hyperloop, and
others. And so its ability to

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create a startup state and the
jobs and do this inclusive, and

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give it back to society. Same
thing I'm trying to do with

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President Macron in France,
which is ad tech ambassador, but

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really want France to be the
example which it is become of a

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innovative country that is good
to do business in startups. And

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they by the way, are growing
faster than any other nation in

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Europe. And the unicorns at the
present time is an example. And

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then India, which is at the
success rate of the world. I

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mean, Prime Minister Modi built
a digital agenda for his country

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digital manufacturing, focus on
the environment startups all 28

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states, driving it through very
successfully for it, and they

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will be the fastest growing
economy for the next decade. And

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probably beyond that, and the
most important strategic ally

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for the U.S. are both
economically militarily joint

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success between our countries.

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Mathew Schwartz: I think your
enthusiasm speaks to my final

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question for you in advance. But
just in case, with a stellar

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career that you've had, with all
of the accomplishments that

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you've achieved, both in terms
of how you've driven your

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organizations, how you've given
back. What most keeps you in the

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game today?

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John Chambers: You know, it's a
great question. And what keeps

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me in the game today most is I
love what I do. I have a desire

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to do this one more time, change
the world one more time. We did

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with the internet. I mean, it
changed the way you work, learn,

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play and learn. We did it in a
way that was good economically

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but also good for society. And
we gave back on a very large

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terms in terms of the global
economy to do that, again with

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startups. And I think startups
will be where the job creations

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occur in the U.S. or Europe or
Asia. Very little, total

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incremental jobs are coming for
the large companies. It will

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almost all be the startups and
companies getting bigger. So to

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have economic growth around the
world, you've got to have a

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startup economy around the
world. And in the U.S., it can't

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be just in Silicon Valley and
Austin and Boston, Atlanta, it's

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got to be in all 50 states. So
to do that, again, will be fun.

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But also, I love problems. To
coach young CEOs and watch them

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develop and build culture and
the success and share it with

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employees and give back to
society and become unicorns. And

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beyond that, that is a rush. And
I've seen every movie there is

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to see. I've messed up
everything at least once. So I'm

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able to say, you might want to
think about doing this a

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different way. But to do that,
at this stage in my career is an

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honor. And hopefully I do a good
job for these companies. The

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last part is I'm a dreamer. But
I know how to make dreams come

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true. I think we're not dreaming
big enough as a nation. I think

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we've got to have the courage to
take control of our destiny

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because there is no entitlement.
And we've got to lead both in

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cybersecurity and AI for our
country to achieve this economic

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future and our security future
from a defense perspective as

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well.

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Mathew Schwartz: John, thank you
so much for your insights, your

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energy, your enthusiasm and your
impact. And thanks so much for

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being here today.

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John Chambers: Matt, thank you
very much.

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Mathew Schwartz: I'm Mathew
Schwartz with Information

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Security Media Group. Thank you
for joining us.